Excellent article! As long as we've had a dictionary, the definition of woman was; Adult Human female. That changed in 2020 when it became an open category that anyone can participate in. Anything, everything but nothing in particular. A theory, a "cluster concept" an internalized feeling. Based on the current Neuvo definition; I'd have to agree that trans women are women. An abstract theory/concept, but that's not what I am. I remain an Adult Human Female. My needs have stayed the same. My neighbor said today that she couldn't post someting on Nextdoor because she used the word, "homeless" to describe a person. She changed it to, "houseless" and they allowed her to post it. Different word, same meaning The same nonsense applies to this topic. I AM not a linguistic, free flowing term that changes with the whims of men. I have agency to declare what I am, and what I am not. My biorhythms are still connected to the cycles of the moon, and the flow of the tides. When I live/work with women, our cycles sync's up. When I hear my baby cry, I lactate. I am not an abstract identity, but a biological reality. A reality that has shaped the course of human history. I have nothing in common with trans women, and everything in common with females.
The property cluster definition has been used for many decades, even in medicine, so the idea it is some kind of woo woo ideology thing is wrong. Even Stock tried to use it but she added an "endogeneity" requirement solely so she could justify excluding even fully sex changed trans women and men.
If trans "women" are cluster concepts, that's great, but it's not what I am. I am connected to the cycles of the moon and the flow of the tides. The Yin to the Yong, part of the code of life, life grows inside of me. Mammals cannot change sex. A man cannot become a woman, unless you believe hard enough, and that's called faith.
Unless you believe only women who menstruate or can have children are women, then there is no distinct difference. I don't know how you can appeal to something like the moon and tides and so on without it being an appeal to a general spirituality rather than a material reality of life.
There are two sexes and mammals cannot change sex. If you believe that they can, that's called faith, and there's no amount of evidence, science or reality that will change your mind. I believe Jesus walked on water, that's a faith based belief. Logic will not change my mind. Your beliefs are faith based and pseudo religious.
Humans can, because unlike other mammals, we have medical treatments that do so. Just like an enormous number of other things we can cure and survive and change that they cannot.
if you believe doctors can play God, and purchasing a penis or a vagina can turn you into a man or a woman, there's no arguing with your religious beliefs. If you believe that, then you would also believe that a doctor can turn a white man into a black man with drugs and surgery. I can be turned into a bat with medical procedures. Unicorns are real and fairies live in Forrests. Happy delusion! This conversation is over.
If you look at rates of homosexuality separately, the L and G, rates have barely changed. What’s increased are people reporting themselves as bisexual or TQ which includes nonbinary. The demographics of LGBT(etc) have quietly shifted to representing bisexual women who primarily engage in heterosexual relationships and people need to be told that. The LGBT “community” and activists can’t be said to speak for lesbians and gay men anymore. There’s nothing wrong with being a bisexual woman, I am one myself, but I don’t think this is right or fair, or even makes sense.
Amy, the strength of your messaging names what’s been so troubling about this movement. Predatory practices, lies, manipulation.
Parents were not given informed consent when child safeguarding professions and institutions became captured, or in other words “queered.”
The satirical publication “The Queer Majority” clearly describes what the political objective for any social justice activist agenda would hope to achieve.
Democrats believed that they can win on this agenda.
It is indeed a social contagion that arose like a mushroom in the dank dark blink of an eye of smart phone ubiquity, as Jeane Twenge describes iGen.
Advertising created distinctions between GenX and Millennials. Because GenXers were too cynical to buy what they were selling, “Advertising Week” literally created GenY as a way to market to them.
What’s so disturbing in the current time is the predation through education of young people.
What’s so disturbing is using vulnerable children to advance an agenda that benefits adults. Indeed the expressed desire to “help” children is deeply codependent in nature. The term “caretaking” describes the selfish motives behind the apparent goodwill of these actions.
One of the traits of codependency is making decisions without thinking through the consequences.
One of the traits of codependency is attempting to control others by convincing them of one’s beliefs.
You model how to stay embodied and hold boundaries in order to maintain one’s own agency. It can be as easy as stating the truth, by refusing to allow words to be misused.
It’s so sad that we’ve become so confused as a people. You are my people.
I’m confused about your economic argument ? You claim being trans is a predatory category invented for profit, yet you ignore the actual economics of transition. Estradiol, spironolactone, testosterone are all generic, off-patent drugs that cost pennies to manufacture. They’re not high-margin products for « Big Pharma » compared to say, patented drugs for chronic widespread conditions. Honestly, if corporate capitalism wanted a new cash cow, a tiny, often uninsured and marginalized minority is a pretty bad target.
Also, the « rise » in id among gen z basically mirrors the rise of left-handedness. When society stopped punishing left-handedness, numbers spiked and then stabilized. People weren’t « marketing » to a new demographic. To frame the liberation of a marginalized group as a mere market expansion strategy is, more than being cynical, a conspiracy theory
There is an excellent article about this by Forbes Magazine called, "Trans Tech is a Budding Industry..." It sites the transition industry to be an over $200 billion market. To put that in perspective for you, that's more than all of Hollywood. It's a massive market. In its heyday, the opioid market was only worth roughly $30 billion.
If you’re referring to the Forbes piece « Trans-Tech Is A Budding Industry: So Why Is No One Investing In It? », girl it doesn’t show what you think it shows 😭
We went from « I excel at finance » to comparing healthcare to sex slavery in record time.
The Forbes article asks why no one is investing. If this was a $200 billion industry (bigger than Hollywood so I hear!), investors would be swarming in. The fact that they aren't proves my point: this is a medical niche. Your hyperbole doesn't change the math.
That is because, as stated, I don’t believe it’s “healthcare” (which I feel should abide by the Hippocratic Oath of “first, do no harm”). I view both industries as crimes against humanity which is a why I made the comparison.
Feel free to invest in this industry if you want but respect the fact others don’t want to.
Are you using arrow keys as quotation marks and plural nouns to refer to singular nouns because I find it hard to read what you’ve written?
The world is bigger than your keyboard, this is standard punctuation in many countries :)
As for plural nouns, singular « they » has been in the Oxford english dictionary for centuries.
Also, hedge funds don't care about the hippocratic oath. Wall Street invests in weapons, oil, and sweatshops. If there was $200 billion on the table, they would take it.
Economics and finance is something I excel at so I’ll try to spell it out in simple terms for those, like you, who are genuinely confused about all the money talk.
Convince 10,000 people that they are born in the wrong body and can change sex and multiply that (X) by an upward cost of $100,000 to perform surgeries and sign people up for lifelong wrong sex hormones so that they can better present as the opposite sex = a billion dollar industry. Not to mention the money to be made from treating possible medical complications.
Still not convinced this is a highly lucrative industry please ask Iran who is allegedly billing it as a tourism industry to try to attract “trans” identifying people who believe they are or want to be the opposite sex.
And no, I don’t think that men who say they are women and lesbians have liberated lesbians who represent, as you point out, an already marginalized population. That would require giving us back our identities and hard won right to gather with our own kind.
I’m genuinely glad you brought up your background in finance. Please, help me figure this one out.
You’ve sketched out a hypothetical 1 billion dollars of revenue. In the context of global healthcare and pharma, that’s basically a rounding error. The global market ks in the trillions. The weight loss drug market alone is projected around $100 billion. Anti aging and cosmetic dermatology are tens of billions. A one time, high liability surgical niche in the low billions (if we’re generous) is not where a rational investor goes hunting for its next cash cow.
And even with that $100 000 per person, most of that money is split across surgeons, anesthesiologists, hospitals, nurses, overhead, and malpractice insurance. The actual pharmaceutical component of rests on generic estradiol, spironolactone, testosterone and so on. These are off‑patent, low margin molecules that have existed for decades and are used for many other treatments. If you really excel in finance, you’d chase patented mass market drugs, not small marginalized populations using cheap generics that are under constant political and legal scrutiny.
Sure, wherever there’s an medical need, an industry will form around it. There’s an enormous oncology industry, but nobody serious believes cancer was invented to sell chemo (pleaseee don’t tell me you do). Pointing out there’s revenue to be made doesn’t demonstrate the category was engineered for revenue. Especially when we know trans people have existed long before modern pharma, long before current gender clinics, and across multiple cultures.
And Iran, a « tourism industry », seriously? The whole country is a theocratic regime that forces gay men to transition to avoid the death penalty. How can you even use human rights abuse as an example of a lucrative market
My point in drawing a comparison to Iran is that I think prescribing puberty blockers to children, prescribing wrong sex hormones and performing surgeries on healthy bodies to try to make humans appear to be the opposite sex is human rights abuse where it concerns children and youth who I feel cannot give informed consent. You are entitled to your own opinion, of course.
As we’ve already discussed, I don’t use the language of trans ideology or believe that humans can “transition” or morph into the opposite sex. Nor do I believe that men are women or lesbians either because they want to be or say they are. Those words are taken. As is “dick” - there is simply no convincing me that women are born with dicks.
What I do support is society investing money into researching the effects of administering puberty blockers and wrong sex hormones to humans (at taxpayer expense) as it bears on human brain development, cognitive thinking skills and patient long term medical health. It appears to me we already have a large test sample of patients to draw from in our study of this. It is my sincere hope that we see many “Detransitioners” step forward to be part of this study and that we, as a society, do everything we can to help them.
Puberty for transsexual youth is a trolley problem, yet you are only worried about the few who you empathize with but would instead prefer all the others get run over?
According to polls we do not appear to be talking about “a few”. In the US alone about 2.8 million people aged 13 and older identify as “trans”. Do you dispute this?
Almost all of those are nonbinary, so it's just noise on paper. And I agree with much more rigorous gatekeeping. But there appears to be no basis for concluding that for the MtF, any additional gatekeeping is justified.
You completely dropped the economic argument. I take it you concede your « billion-dollar predatory industry » theory doesn’t really hold up?
As for your pivot, you can’t compare a theocratic regime forcing gay men to transition, under the threat of execution, with the western model of affirmative care, based on voluntary informed consent. They’re polar opposites. One is state violence, the other is bodily autonomy. Then you speak as if this is a new experiment when we have decades of data backing it. Look at Cornell’s systematic review of 55 studies, they found that gender transition improves the well-being of transgender people in 93% of researches. You hope for detransitioners to step forward when they’re statistically rare. The regret rate for transition-related surgery is ~1%. Compare that to knee replacement surgery or laser eye surgery. We don’t ban knee surgeries because a minority regret them.
I’m not asking you to believe anything. I know my biology. Transition was about aligning my physical reality and social existence with my internal sense of self. It’s a social and medical process, not a magical one.
It’s clear we won’t agree on the philosophy of it all, though I’m glad we could at least clear up the financial misinformation :))
I’d also like to thank you for restacking all prominent TERF voices on to your feed to boost our outreach and help to get our message out. Dialogue and debate are a good thing.
Can you restack this post as I worry it’s not getting enough play 👇. I think Zoe Nope is awesomely talented. Who can forget “Terf Bunny One” and those adorable bunnies?
I do compare it to what is happening in Iran. I view both acts as a crime against humanity.
To repeat: I do not believe children have the capacity to give informed consent to things that may harm them and I do not believe humans can “transition” into the opposite sex, regardless of their “internal sense of self”. The sex stereotypes upheld by gender ideology continue to offend me as a woman, as a lesbian and as a feminist.
If I had a magic wand I would happily give any man who seeks to be a woman, full womanhood and all that comes with it. Let’s start with being talked down to your entire life and infantilized by men by being referred to as ‘girl’, ‘honey’, ‘sweatheart’ (as you have done to me) … being gaslit and told what it was you said or ‘conceded’ to, when it didn’t happen (as you just did to me) … how about unequal pay? being passed over for jobs because you’re a woman? … an unfair share of household and child rearing tasks placed on woman - all yours … the incessant sexualization of our bodies and being told to bend over or to suck dick … being raped and sexually abused at a rate far exceeding males … the menstruation years, perimenopause or menopause - also all yours (and in case some men are wondering as they await a uterus implant, it’s pure living hell so consider yourself forewarned) … child birth over the top pain threshold, or so I’ve been told … breastfeeding not a sexual turn-on I’ve been told but, rather, a demanding job. I doubt the average man seeks this. Far easier I would think to stay male and for some males to pretend they’re female and infringe on our hard won rights, rob us of our privacy and dignity and then claim our prizes our awards.
You continue to cite stats that have been admitted to be false in high courts of law by “trans” activist lawyers. Feel free to argue your points with them but I think many take things admitted to be false at a Supreme Court level at face value.
I didn't gaslight you. In a debate, when you abandon your main argument (the economics) to pivot to a new topic, that is a concession.
State-sanctioned violence designed to eliminate homosexuality is the literal opposite of healthcare based on bodily autonomy and consent. Equating these two acts is an insult to genuine human rights activism.
But sure let's look at your new argument. You’ve defined womanhood exclusively by suffering: rape, pay gaps, pain, and objectification. First-off, what a deeply bleak and reductive way to view our gender. But then, if « being treated like a woman » is your metric, I have bad news for you: Trans women experience the pay gap, we are catcalled and told to « smile » by men, and we face sexual violence at rates that are horrifyingly high. I don't need a magic wand to know what misogyny feels like, I live it when I walk out my door. The difference is, I don't believe suffering is the only thing that makes a woman.
The Supreme Courts admitting stats are false is just fiction. The UK’s Bell v. Tavistock ruling was overturned. The US Supreme Court is currently reviewing bans sure, but has never issued a factual ruling debunking the 93% satisfaction rate. Don't invent legal history to suit your narrative.
Directing your anger at me won’t solve the patriarchy. I genuinely hope you find a way to define your womanhood by something other than pain.
Oh FFS. If you want to pose on Insta or walk the streets in short skirts, form fitting sweaters with large breasts, in ass shot after ass shot, dressed as a naughty school girl, did you not get the memo that you are likely to attract catcalls from men? Women get this from a young age.
And if you’re trying to attract lesbians, did you not get the memo most of us do not find this attractive. Nor do we want to be coerced into accepting men’s “ladydicks”. Bisexual or heterosexual women might though so can I suggest your best chance of attracting a suitable mate may be with them?
Aren’t you supposed to be a feminist? Blaming a woman’s clothing (like short skirts) for street harassment is the oldest patriarchal excuse in the book. Men harass women because they’re misogynists, regardless of fabric. The more we argue, the more you sound exactly like the men you claim to oppose.
Also, you’re projecting. I post normal outfit pictures because I like fashion. The fact that you immediately sexualize them says more about your mindset than my wardrobe.
You’ve conceded the economics, the legal facts, and the statistics. Now you’re conceding the core tenets of feminism.
And don't worry, no one is trying to coerce you. I date women who love and respect me. You’re safe :))
What about post op individuals? Also, even if you are making a conservative argument about "inviting blame"... where is the other aspect. Do you think if she wore conservative clothing she would avoid scrutiny. Do you?
Absolutely nothing as I see it. What is presenting “as the opposite sex”? Is it based on tired sex stereotypes which feminism sought to challenge and dispense with? Such as women wear skirts, they paint their nails and wear makeup, they act submissively and defer to men …
I agree with JKR: “Dress however you please. Call yourself whatever you like.
Sleep with any consenting adult who’ll have you. Live your best life in peace and security. But force women out of their jobs for stating that sex is real?” That is what has happened - people have been fired, suspended, sued and attacked for saying that sex is real and it matters. This is coming from trans activism which, in my opinion, has crossed a line by imposing on the rights of others.
I’ll add: force women out of their sex segregated spaces which were established to protect them? Coerce others into accepting your belief that men who say they are women are women? Call lesbians “sexual racists” and bigots for refusing to sleep with men who say they’re lesbians? These things have also happened.
I believe in freedom of speech, freedom of belief and the human right to self expression. I resist compelled speech (ie: forcing others to state that TWAW) and persecuting others who do not share your beliefs.
i read the article. yes yes yes. people totally get this. going through comments. yup yup yup.
oh boy. guess who it is?
our favorite arcus foundation employee. or the person who disseminates the same tired old propaganda from 2015. yes, those were the good old days. when people didnt know what the gender industry was up to. but people have figured it out. and i hope you do as well.
- if kids and others respond to dysphoria via the watch and wait method, their dysphoria goes away and they get better. medical biz profits = $0.00.
- or kids and other vulnerable people are scammed into quack gender interventions every gov systematic review on earth found have no benefit. then medical biz gets $millions for each person scammed via basketfuls of unneeded pills, unneeded plastic surgeries and dont forget about the advertising and enabling of this fraud for added customers who come along after. generic pills is like saying organic poison. its still not good for you and is only a tiny part of the issue.
wow, breaking out the old left handed comparison lie?
the # of people who are left handed today is the same as in the 1700s. it was plateaued prior to 1800 and it is plateaued after 1940. it dipped during the industrial revolution due to new machines only made for righties. my former co worker can write equaly well with both hands.
gender ID isnt a plateau. so theres really no comparion.
and most people who ID as opposite gender detrans eventually. by year 4, half stop taking gender meds and go back to IDing as birth gender. gender ID follows the pattern of a placebo. the first 12 to 22 months are filled with thoughts about avoiding whatever people wanted to avoid. drugs and alholohol do the same thing. after that people firgure out thirr issues had nothing to do with gender ID. but then theyre body is ruimed by gender meds and takes a while to get off them. but people do stop taking the meds eventually. so the curve lokks nothing like left handed.
arcus has all the propaganda bullet points. when they get to the end of the list they start again at the top of the list which is where the left handed claim is.
Actual longitudinal studies (like the Dutch protocol) show a 98% continuation rate for teens who start medical transition. Surgeries cost thousands, not millions. No insurance company on earth is paying out « millions » per patient.
Your industrial machine theory is creative though, but historians agree: numbers rose because schools stopped beating children for using their left hands.
Does the Arcus Foundation accept Paypal for deposits btw? I’m still waiting for my paycheck 😔
when you say historians agree thats untrue. but it doesnt mater anyways since left handedness rate is plateaued. is gender ID plateaued? it was going up during the time people were scammed by activisys carefully crafted PR campaign and now its going down since people have figured out what a harmful fruad it is. the world is not bluesky and reddit. the only way gender dogma can stand is via blocking every person on earth that doesnt go along with it. but eventually people figure it out.
every study ever done (12 studys some new some old) found that kids who arent affirmed (meaning no gender meds) grow out of their wish to ID as opposite gender with puberty. but even if they dont grow out of it, gender meds and gender affirmarion dont help. every gov systematic review on earth found gender meds dont help kids mental health, gender dysphoria or anything else. nothing. its a fraud. we know that know. the only people who dont umderstand that are low info people and people who live in a bubble like at bsky or reddit. the rest of the world is banning this fraud and moving on. yes, this can take years. but the cat is out of the bag. i do feel sorry for the bag holders.
i assume your claim that kids dont grow out it is based on olsens fraudulent study.
- she didnt ask her participants if they had dysphoria. so its apples to oranges of what you claim. instead she focused on gender ID.
her participants were 7-12 too young for puberty the age wrn most desist
- 60% of her participants were on gender meds. 100% of her participants were socially transitioned. these delay desistance in the short term but eventually most ID again as their birth gender.
- olsen is a hard core gender activist. and thats how she makes her living. so she has a political and financial intrest to skew the #. she lies.
- all the participants can be assumed to be political actors. why else would an 8 year old opt to ID as opposite gender? obviously they have been spoon fed lies that gender ID is helpful and harmless - both are untrue. an 8 yo kid who IDs as opposite gender has been coached.
even when people do get tricked into taking gendrr meds, they stop takimg them eventually. detrans ppl say in retrospec their issues had nothing to do with magic gender.
of course, gender activists claim few detrans. this is completely untrue. gender activists detrans stats intentionally omit any detrans ppl. when all the medical records of entire groups are looked at we find by year 4, half stop taking gender meds. by year 10 its likely most are off them. and many end up dead as their psych issues and truama go untreated and made worse by activist led quack care that every gov systematic review on earth found provides no benefit.
yes, i understand youv been told a totally different story. uv been lied to. every gender biz stat and claim is 100% a lie. its a PR and lobby campaign to rob kids right to puberty and rob womens right to safety and make $ for the medical biz. sorry you were scammed
in germany the self reported diagnoses of gender dysphoria is needed to get gender meds. once they no longer report that, we know they likely detrans. and we know many detrans people arr still reporting dysohoria just to get the meds since their body is ruined via gender quackery and still need the meds even tho they no longer ID as opposite gender .
"In the longitudinal cohort (n = 7885, 47.1% in the age group 20–24 years; 37.7% male), only 36.4% still had a confirmed F64 (gender dysphoria) diagnosis after five years and diagnosis persistence was below 50% in all age groups (range 27.3% [15–19-year-old females] to 49.7% [20–24-year-old males])."
The German study tracks insurance billing codes for gender dysphoria. The clinical goal of transition is to resolve dysphoria (the distress). When a patient transitions and becomes happy/stable, they often no longer meet the criteria for « clinically significant distress », or they simply move to maintenance care. Hence, the diagnosis code dropping off an insurance claim often means the treatment worked! :)
As for the desistance myth: those older studies are infamous for categorizing any gnc kid (like tomboys or effeminate boys) as « trans ». Of course they « grew out of it » they were never trans to begin with. Modern studies (like Olson's) filter those out, which is why retention rates are now so high.
But honestly, you just called 8yo children political actors and claimed every major medical association is running a fraud. Do you have other grand conspiracies to share? 😭
medical orgs that support gender "care" for kids are running a fraud. thats why theyre being sued by the state of FL.
"Florida AG Sues Medical Activist Groups for Pushing Transgender Care on Minors...The years-long coordinated campaign by WPATH and other medical organizations to disregard the serious health risks of sex change interventions on minors will go down as the most egregious medical scandal in modern history,” said Dr. Kurt Miceli, medical director at Do No Harm, a medical watchdog"
i guess its fun to say that in the old days they recorded gender dysphoria different than today. but thats a lie. the questions and testing for dsm4 gender dysphoria is exactly the same as dsm5 gender ID. they changed the word at the top of paragraph in dsm from dysphoria to ID. thats it. and of course the propaganda masters keep you and the other brown shirts in line via the lie that people dont desist. i think you should reflect on the power this lie has had over you. and how you dont know anything about the dsm for dysphoria or ID. or how wpath made the whole thing up to enable theor fetish to harm kids. your simply swallowing spoon fed lies.
it maybe differnt if you had any thing to support your claims. but you dont. theres no studys that show kids dont grow out of gender ID unless they are pre puberty and affirmd. the olsen study you cite kids were pre puberty. 100% affirmed, 60% on gender meds.
theres also no evidence that 80% of people who ID as trans dont detrans eventually. your comments about the german study arr false. you literially just made that up. you have no evidence this is the case. if so, post it.
yes, if kids are coached into voting for biden or trump they become poltical actors. its the same thing when they vote for gender affirmion. kids that age cant even tie their shoes. a 10 year old would be dead in a week if parents whernt constantly reminding then to watch for cars. they do and say whatever adults sell them on. every1 knows this. but people not aroimd kids slmetimes forget
The german study is an administrative claims study. It relies 100% on billing codes. If a doctor stops billing the code (because the patient is fine), they disappear from the data. That is how insurance studies work
Being sued by the state of Florida proves nothing other than that Ron DeSantis and his AG dislike you. A lawsuit is not scientific evidence :)
And calling me a « brown shirt » just because I cited the American Medical Association? Dude you’ve lost the plot.
no one really cares how adults present. theres been no studys to see if gender meds help adults, not ones that have been looked at via evidence reviews. all the debate is around kids. the reason is kids cant concent to the severe life long harm caused by gender meds. but adults arr free to smoke ciggarttes drink whisky, gender ID as opposite sex or a million other optional hobbys.
but part of the adult gender ID is usually a slate of propganda. what youre claiming is completely untrue. every study ever done (12 studys) found that kids who arent affirmed (meaning no gender meds) grow out of their wish to ID as opposite gender with puberty. but even if they dont grow out of it, gender meds and gender affirmarion dont help.
i assume your claim that kids dont grow out it is based on olsens fraudulent study.
- she didnt ask her participants if they had dysphoria. so its apples to oranges of what you claim. instead she focused on gender ID.
her participants were 7-12 too young for puberty the age wrn most desist
- 60% of her participants were on gender meds. 100% of her participants were socially transitioned. these delay desistance in the short term but eventually most ID again as their birth gender.
- olsen is a hard core gender activist. and thats how she makes her living. so she has a political and financial intrest to skew the #. she lies.
- all the participants can be assumed to be political actors. why else would an 8 year old opt to ID as opposite gender? obviously they have been spoon fed lies that gender ID is helpful and harmless - both are untrue. an 8 yo kid who IDs as opposite gender has been coached.
even when people do get tricked into taking gendrr meds, they stop takimg them eventually. detrans ppl say in retrospec their issues had nothing to do with magic gender.
of course, gender activists claim few detrans. this is completely untrue. gender activists detrans stats intentionally omit any detrans ppl. when all the medical records of entire groups are looked at we find by year 4, half stop taking gender meds. by year 10 its likely most are off them. and many end up dead as their psych issues and truama go untreated and made worse by activist led quack care that every gov systematic review on earth found provides no benefit.
yes, i understand youv been told a totally different story. uv been lied to. every gender biz stat and claim is 100% a lie. its a PR and lobby campaign to rob kids right to puberty and rob womens right to safety and make $ for the medical biz. sorry you were scammed
in germany the self reported diagnoses of gender dysphoria is needed to get gender meds. once they no longer report that, we know they likely detrans. and we know many detrans people arr still reporting dysohoria just to get the meds since their body is ruined via gender quackery and still need the meds even tho they no longer ID as opposite gender .
"In the longitudinal cohort (n = 7885, 47.1% in the age group 20–24 years; 37.7% male), only 36.4% still had a confirmed F64 (gender dysphoria) diagnosis after five years and diagnosis persistence was below 50% in all age groups (range 27.3% [15–19-year-old females] to 49.7% [20–24-year-old males])."
unfortunately, i dont believe a word youre saying. what happens most the time is adults discover gender ID as adults and then lie about their childhood experiences. or they just imagine things and then repeat those as if they were facts like trump does. weve all had a tough life. amd i understand yours was no picnic. everything i conclude is based on verifiable information. systemstic evidence reviews. multiple studys wirh same results and unbiased participants. ive been agp my whole life. so what? ive also done heroin cocaine and had a drinking problem. gender ID and drugs and alcohol are adult vises. if a child claims to be opposite sex the thing to do is not affirm this . theres no evidence gender ID helps anyone. not even one person. time after time after time people say they would die if not affirmed and its great after they do and then theyre dead from suicide a week later. it doesnt work. we know that now. theres no benefit to gender affirmarion or gender meds. and its causes severe health problems. one person saying this or thst doesnt mean anything becusse its not part of medical evidence. i wish you well. ive been reading personal blogs of people who transitioned for decades. they are treating psych issues and trauma via quack intevention that doesnt work. most are miserable and are being scammed by big biz. its sad really.
im ok with people drinking or even doing drugs. but why would tax payers pay for it. some are happy? so what? its a hobby. many who use heroin spend 30 years doing a few hundred dollars of heroin a week. others become addicted and are on the steet in a month. the point is this isnt medical tretament . its a vice for some. and medical quackery for others. either way its a choice and theres no benefit to it. gender ID all you want. but you cant claim it helps. you cant claim most continue their gender ID past year 5. and you cant claim its not a choice. so ur left with a hobby or vice many enjoy for a time and many others are severely harmed by.
I’d say that anyone born with male autonomy who calls themselves a “trans lesbian” (as you previously inferred on other posts) is seriously disillusioned. Please clarify again whether you believe you are a “trans lesbian”, because you’ve hit a new post and listeners may not be tuned into what’s happening here.
I project a lot of anger (I’d refer to it as more akin to rage) towards men who call themselves lesbians. It is beyond to me that some men are still trying to convince others, lesbians especially, that some women have dicks. Why not try to sell this story to men and come back to us with their comments?
You challenge me to « sell this story to men » to see what they think? I didn't realize that as a lesbian feminist, you believed men should be the ultimate arbiters of womanhood 🧍♀️
To answer your question though: Yes, I am a woman who loves women. Trans women have been part of the lesbian community even since Stonewall. I don't define my womanhood nor my attraction based on male approval/opinion. I’m even surprised you do?
Your rage is a personal emotional issue you need to work through, not a political argument I need to answer for. I’m not interested in convincing men of anything! I live for myself. Maybe you should try that :)
If you’re referring to the Stonewall uprising in NYC in 1969, you need to realize it was not the first time homosexuals organized to fight for our rights.
1924 marks the oldest gay rights organization formed in the US (Chicago). There were many uprisings in the US and worldwide prior to Stonewall.
But since you brought up Stonewall (which is arguably one of the most famous uprisings and triggered other major cities to rise), you need to understand that our history is well documented and that there are people still living who were there, like Fred Sargent, who cofounded the first gay and lesbian Pride march in NYC. There are also many of us like myself still living who founded other Pride marches in other major cities. Our history is not yours to rewrite.
While it becomes boring to have to keep restating this, make no mistake that it was homosexuals (gays and lesbians as we were known back then before heterosexuals and others started coopting our words) who rose - it was not TQ+. And if you’re referring to Marsha as identifying as a “trans woman”, he did not. He was a gay male and he identified as such which has been preserved in video footage of him speaking and archived on both the internet and in NYC. And before you attempt to “trans” away Storme, know that she was a lesbian and identified as such. Please allow them to keep their identities out of respect for who they said they were.
I am hopeful that younger generations like yourself will stop “transing” away homosexuals, desist from spouting inaccurate revisionist history and stop with this nonsense of coopting the gay and lesbian civil rights movement and saying egregious things that men who believe they are lesbian woman are. We used to have words for men who wanted to sleep with women. Take a pick: either bisexual or heterosexual. Nothing wrong with either sex, any sexual orientation or way of living or presenting in the world as long as it doesn’t harm others or impinge on their rights and dignity.
Respect is earned. We earned our respect by not trying to coerce others and force them to accept us. We allowed others to hold their deeply held beliefs. Do take Dana’s advice and try to earn the respect of other women.
I accept that you believe you’re a woman. I don’t believe it. Please live your best life as we all do.
Done here but if you’d like to keep commenting, please do.
So you’d rather rely on social goodwill than civil rights? They’re literally what protects you when that goodwill runs out. If a politician wants to target us to win an election, being « sweet, humble, and tormented » won't save you. They don't care how nice you are, they hate what you represent anyway! All you’re advocating for is submission. You want us to survive, by begging 🧍♀️
And the comment about being a midwit... yikes. You would trade your intelligence? More than just envy, do you, like, view womanhood as a state of being lesser, passive, and empty? We’re past gender dysphoria, that’s just misogyny.
You split the world into tormented real trans and fetishists because you can’t accept being trans without the self-hatred is possible.
I don’t have « AGP dreams », I have a real life, and I view my body as mine, not a wreck.
Torment isn’t the only thing that makes you valid, and misery isn't a currency.
You’re really using the murder of a child to prove a your point about « social goodwill »? Brianna Ghey was hunted and stabbed 28 times. The killers’ messages were literally filled with transphobic slurs, hell, even the judge noted the transphobic motivation! Dismissing that is another level of denial. Go ask the families of the victims on the trans day of remembrance if the world is lazy or ignoring us.
There’s no credible peer-reviewed evidence for puberty blockers « shaving off IQ points ». You repeat the same debunked talking points from the GC groups you claim to find wrongheaded? You say you're offended I called out your misogyny but you literally described « The Life » as choosing to be a midwit and passive. If that was entirely rooted on your misunderstanding of blockers, I’ll let it slide.
And you keep trying to force your label on me, like it’s a religious confession? « You too, my friend »😭
No, Dana. I’m not you. Your spectrum thing maps your own shame, it is not a blueprint for my life :)
You may think your safety is bought by blending in but you’re still just one clockable moment away from being the oddity you’re so afraid of. It simply is safer to have your rights in writing, ratter than depend on whether a normie thinks you’re sweet enough today.
If that’s what gives you peace and clarity, I’m glad you found that.
But that’s it, it’s your narrative. You can’t project that onto every trans woman you see, especially telling a young girl that her transition is a cope or a deception. You’d literally be an architect of the very same shame you claim to have moved past.
If you can’t imagine a trans life that’ss rooted in simple honesty, the only limitation is in your imagination.
And idkkk, Kyle comparing our existence to nazis and ted bundy sounds like a pretty big value judgment on intention to me 🧍♀️
Again, it’s your experience, not a universal fact.
I’m not looking for sympathy based on how many surgeries I can get to appease anyone’s definition of a woman. The whole point of being trans is bodily autonomy! And people have a thousand reasons for their medical choices, from finances to health risks, or maybe they’re just comfortable as they are, ever think of that?
You’re obsessed with passing and « deception ». I’ve told you before, all I care about is taking care of myself and being safe, living in the body I have :)
You define a woman by her parts, I define myself by my life. If someone loses sympathy for me because I don't fit their narrow surgical requirements, all they’re reflecting is their prejudice. You’ve traded your dignity for a « buy-in » from people that only like you if you hide who you are. I’d rather just be myself.
Even in the most progressive cities, trans women (or cis ones for that matter) are harassed, lose jobs, and face violence. Waiting to go full time is a safety assessment. You're essentially saying that if a woman carries pepper spray, she « secretly knows » she's going to be attacked. No, she's just aware of the world she lives in.
A deception requires an intent to trick. I’m not tricking anyone by being myself. If I tell you I’m a woman, I’m sharing the most honest part of my internal reality with you. The « fiction » was all the years of my life I spent pretending to be a man.
You say you don’t live in a delusion, but you’ve spent this whole conversation insisting that your own life is a lie. It sounds exhausting. I work for my happiness every day by refusing your premise :))
I’m not interested in your « project of deception ». My project is just living, and I deserve to be seen as the woman I’ve been all my life.
It’s ironic to be frustrated with Kyle who called your experience a lie, yet you’ve spent this entire thread calling my experience a « deception »? You’re both doing the exact same thing, refusing to believe a trans person is telling the truth about their own life.
Your claim that trans women aren't in danger is dangerously naive. Brianna Ghey was a teenager in a park. To say we’re only in danger if wére assholes is pure victim blaming.
You say my affirmations will feel like « cope » in ten years. I think the opposite is true, that your deception narrative is the ultimate cope. Maybe it’s the story you told yourself to survive an era that didn't have a place for you.
I mean look, at the end of the day, I’m glad you « lucked out » and weren’t hurt, but please stop trying to convince me that my honesty is a scam. I’m just living. If you can’t see the difference, it’s your tragedy not mine.
My point was, they probably won’t see your text if you reply to me instead of their last messages.
Anyway, in a world where people (even in this very thread) compare trans women to Ted Bundy and Nazis, why on earth would a young woman « go full time » before she feels 100% safe, financially secure, and ready? I only think about passing because I don’t want to get assaulted.
That isn't shame or deception. It’s called a social transition, and it happens in stages. You’re bullying her for not being « brave » enough on your timeline, then using her normal human fear to disprove her identity.
If she shouts you down, it’s probably because you’re pathologizing her safety instincts. You're telling her that if she doesn't jump into the fire immediately, she’s a « deceiver ». Instead of helping, you’re just adding to the weight she’s already carrying.
You look at a girl trying to find her way, obsessing over makeup and mannerisms (like many young women do) and instead of seeing a human being, you see a pathology. You project your own shame onto her. No wonder she shouts you down, she can probably feel the judgment radiating off you.
You’re convinced that misery is the destination because it was your destination. You assume I will eventually feel like a « sex mimic » because you never stopped feeling like one. But that is your internal monologue.
The « shortcomings » only eat at you if you believe, deep down, that you’re a fraud. I don't. I don't view my womanhood as a « disguise » that needs to be perfect to work, I view it as my life. I’m simply happy, and I think that’s what frustrates you the most.
(Btw, just like now, I think you often reply to my original comment by mistake. Some of your replies aren’t even meant for me I think? They clearly name Kyle)
In a free society, access to public accommodations (like bathrooms) is a civil right. Access to society is a matter of law, not a favor to grant.
You say « do what you want with your body », but then you immediately set terms and conditions on where those bodies are allowed to exist? Girl that's segregation. You can't claim to be a radical libertarian for medical freedom while advocating for strict social policing of where those free people can go.
If a gay kid comes out and gets kicked out, we don't say the kid harmed the family or « caused a pathology ». We say the family failed to love unconditionally.
Transition didn’t wreck my life or my relationships. It saved them, because it allowed me to show up as my whole self. Yes, dysphoria is painful, but the remedy (transition) is the cure, not the disease.
It seems you view transition as a desperate, destructive last resort that you have to apologize for? I view it as a medical necessity that opened the door to joy. I’m sorry your experience was so impacted by loss, truly. But please stop telling the rest of us that we are harming people just by trying to be happy :)
A parent having to « adjust their expectations » is not harm. It’s a normal part of parenting an autonomous human being. If a child becomes an artist instead of a doctor, or doesn't have grandkids, the parents adjust. Comparing the normal friction of human authenticity to the actual destruction of alcoholism (which kills people and destroys families) is a massive reach.
Honestly, your story highlights such a huge disconnect? You had total support, no misgendering, and a smooth transition... yet you still insist on framing yourself as a « harmful pathology » comparable to an addict?
Your negative view isn't even based on your reality (which sounds lovely!), but on an internalized belief that you should feel like a burden.
You seem convinced you were accepted only because you were compliant and « useful ». Have you considered you were accepted simply because your family and colleagues were decent people who loved you? You don't have to attribute their kindness to your « good behavior ».
I’m glad you had such a smooth ride, truly. I hope one day you can accept that you deserved that love simply for existing, not because you earned it 🫶🏻
I think I can understand where you’re coming from now, it makes a lot of sense. You transitioned in an era without legal protections, I don’t doubt « pass perfectly or be fired » was a literal reality for you. You developed these rigid rules to survive a hostile world.
But just because the world was cruel to you doesn't mean we should accept cruelty as the baseline.
Your stance on passing is deeply unfair. « Trying harder » doesn't change bone structure, genetics, or bank accounts. By your logic, poor trans women or those who transition later in life deserve the mockery of those teenage girls because they « failed ». That’s victim-blaming. If those girls laughed at a cis woman for being overweight or having a « manly » jaw, we’d call them bullies. We wouldn't tell the woman she « failed to be female enough ». Why is the standard different for us?
You call respect a « quid pro quo », that we must buy our safety with compliance and passing. What a terrifying way to live? It means your safety is always conditional, gosh, always one « clockable » moment away from being revoked.
We’re fighting for a world where you don't have to be « above reproach » just to exist, where you can be mediocre, messy, or clockable, and still be treated with kindness. You deserve safety because you exist, not because you paid for it with « good behavior ».
The « deception » is the core of our disagreement. I’m not tricking anyone, I’m simply existing and inhabiting my life. Framing trans women as « deceivers » is the exact logic used to justify violence against us. We’re only telling the truth about who we are.
You support puberty blockers and youth transition to prevent the pain of male puberty. Do you realize that position puts you at direct war with almost every other « gender critical » person? They all view what you just advocated for as child abuse, « sterilization » and a crime. Dana, you’re trying to find common ground with people who want to legally ban the very medical care you admit is necessary to save kids from the suffering you endured!
We agree that passing is easier with early intervention. We agree that money shouldn't dictate passability.
Yet you still rely on that quid pro quo kindness from bosses, not on civil rights that protect us even if your boss is an asshole. That’s the difference. Rights are for the people who aren't lucky.
I think we’ve said all there is to say, but I’m at least genuinely glad you support youth access to care. That’s a bridge between us I didn’t expect.
I appreciate the honesty! It’s rare to find someone in the gc camp who actually admits transition is necessary for youth, even if it contradicts the rest of their movement.
On the deception point, I think it’s what really highlights our generational difference. You say « we all know in our hearts we are sex mimics ». I need you to know: I do not feel that.
When I walk down the street, I don’t feel like I’m tricking people. I feel like finally presenting the truth. The « deception » was before I transitioned, when I had to pretend to be a boy to make everyone else comfortable. That was the lie. Living as a woman is the first time I’ve been honest.
You view your life as a necessary mimicry to survive pain. I view mine as an authentic expression of myself. We might never bridge that gap, but I hope you realize that the shame you carry isn't mandatory. It’s not an inherent part of being trans, just a scar from a world that wasn't kind to you.
Take care. I’m glad we could agree on saving the kids, at least :)
If you support my right to access hormones, modify my body, and live without shame, then we’re political allies on the things that actually impact my daily life. « Abolish all stereotypes » and ownership of gender are goals I can get behind 😼
Though then, why cling to bioessentialist labels?
At any rate, I’ll take pro-medical freedom over predatory capitalism conspiracy theorist any day.
Urghhh, I was with you until the pseudoscience part. The agp theory has been debunked for decades and is just a fancy way to pathologize trans women who love women.
To answer your question: It doesn't hurt to discuss biology. I know my chromosomes. I know I went through male puberty. I’m not delusional. But reducing a human being entirely to their birth conditions is a very narrow way to view the world 🧍♀️
You essentially describe my life as a tragedy I have to « make the best of, involving torment and just simulating womanhood ». That might be your view, but it isn’t my reality. Mine is joyful. I don't just get by, I thrive. My partner doesn't humor me, she loves me 🫶🏻
I don't need to be a « quiet, cheerful asset » to earn basic dignity. Respect isn't a transaction anyone pays for with compliance, it's a basic human right.
Definitely with you on the medical freedom, but I’ll decline your pity. I love being the woman that I am :)
You’re projecting. You’ve built a framework where you’re a « feminized male with an inward-turned orientation ». If that narrative helps you make sense of your own life, sure. Keep it that way. But do not presume to diagnose me, neither will I. I am not you.
Studies applied blanchard’s criteria to cis women and found that 93% of them qualified as agp. When a diagnostic tool classifies nearly all women as having a fetish for their own gender, the tool is broken.
But the most heartbreaking part of your comment is your view on respect. You view basic dignity as a courtesy earned by being a « quiet asset »? You believe we must apologize for our existence by being useful and silent. That’s a survival mechanism to a hostile world. I expect respect because I am a human being, regardless of whether I am « useful » to the corporate team :)
I hear you. Men like you were never a threat to lesbians but you know that. In fact, I’d say we historically welcomed you before many gay men did. I personally owe gay male transvestites and male drag queens my life because it was them who protected women like me from being attacked when butch women could not.
Men who say they’re lesbians are a threat to us. I appreciate this has not impacted the gay men’s community as much as it has us. Same sex attracted men can just say “piss off” to women who say they’re gay men and get away with it because men can out power women and women are not prone to rape or sexually abuse men.
Lesbians are being told to leave LGB spaces; we face signs at almost every LGBT establishment that read “TERFs not welcome”; we are no longer welcome at Pride if we will not say TWAW; we have our memberships revoked if we complain; we are fired, suspended and sued if we speak out; we are throw off of online dating sites if we protest men being on there; we are sued when we try to establish female only online platforms to connect with other women. We, unlike you, cannot out power men who are bigger and stronger than us. The bat signal needs to be activated - same sex attracted rights have fallen alongside women’s rights and lesbians are getting pummelled.
I know you see our vulnerability and I very much appreciate you commenting.
Predatory marketing is bad enough, but to really make your skin crawl consider this: Older men with weird and in some cases sick and dangerous sexual fetishes are all too happy for the vulnerable, naive young people joining (groomed in some cases) this category. Not only are these young people sympathetic poster children to be the public-facing side of "trans" behind whom the ones who trigger our disgust response can hide, but in some cases the kids are actually targets of sexual predation. When people talk about sacrificing our children to Moloch, it may not be the kind of language and imagery you are comfortable with, but this (along with the scandalous medical interventions) is what they are seeing.
Linguistic manipulation has been the tool , enthusiastically adopted by progressive protagonists. Why not take a leaf from their book and cease using “ gender dysphoria/ incongruity “ and , instead use “ transgender ideation “ ?
There will be true “ unicorns “ of the former, but the latter is a more accurate label for most of the individuals within the recent ROGD epidemic
This is one of the most brilliant essays I've read in a long time
This is the first time I ever read anythng which persuasively argued that transgenderism can serve as a TOOL FOR PREDATORY CAPITALISM.
In any event, I welcome you to examine my article which makes two points: A) it shows why intellectual endeavors paradoxically often yiield stupid ansewrs and B) it illuminates the role of castrating, disturbed Mothers in inducing male to female transgenderism
Excellent article! As long as we've had a dictionary, the definition of woman was; Adult Human female. That changed in 2020 when it became an open category that anyone can participate in. Anything, everything but nothing in particular. A theory, a "cluster concept" an internalized feeling. Based on the current Neuvo definition; I'd have to agree that trans women are women. An abstract theory/concept, but that's not what I am. I remain an Adult Human Female. My needs have stayed the same. My neighbor said today that she couldn't post someting on Nextdoor because she used the word, "homeless" to describe a person. She changed it to, "houseless" and they allowed her to post it. Different word, same meaning The same nonsense applies to this topic. I AM not a linguistic, free flowing term that changes with the whims of men. I have agency to declare what I am, and what I am not. My biorhythms are still connected to the cycles of the moon, and the flow of the tides. When I live/work with women, our cycles sync's up. When I hear my baby cry, I lactate. I am not an abstract identity, but a biological reality. A reality that has shaped the course of human history. I have nothing in common with trans women, and everything in common with females.
The move from print to digital dictionaries etc. is directly related to this chaos and confusion.
Our children's brains are being rewired, not all in the same way.
The data shows that achievement gaps (literacy and numeracy) are widening.
Will humans be speciating at this evolutionary inflection point?
A very dystopian future appears possible, with humans and transhumans and their overlords. Welcome to the new technofeudal globalist society.
I call it; The New World Disorder.
The property cluster definition has been used for many decades, even in medicine, so the idea it is some kind of woo woo ideology thing is wrong. Even Stock tried to use it but she added an "endogeneity" requirement solely so she could justify excluding even fully sex changed trans women and men.
If trans "women" are cluster concepts, that's great, but it's not what I am. I am connected to the cycles of the moon and the flow of the tides. The Yin to the Yong, part of the code of life, life grows inside of me. Mammals cannot change sex. A man cannot become a woman, unless you believe hard enough, and that's called faith.
Unless you believe only women who menstruate or can have children are women, then there is no distinct difference. I don't know how you can appeal to something like the moon and tides and so on without it being an appeal to a general spirituality rather than a material reality of life.
There are two sexes and mammals cannot change sex. If you believe that they can, that's called faith, and there's no amount of evidence, science or reality that will change your mind. I believe Jesus walked on water, that's a faith based belief. Logic will not change my mind. Your beliefs are faith based and pseudo religious.
Humans can, because unlike other mammals, we have medical treatments that do so. Just like an enormous number of other things we can cure and survive and change that they cannot.
if you believe doctors can play God, and purchasing a penis or a vagina can turn you into a man or a woman, there's no arguing with your religious beliefs. If you believe that, then you would also believe that a doctor can turn a white man into a black man with drugs and surgery. I can be turned into a bat with medical procedures. Unicorns are real and fairies live in Forrests. Happy delusion! This conversation is over.
great piece! in the first photo caption I think you mean to say “*disparate* set of symptoms” — although desperate may well apply ;-)
Thanks for the correction, fixed!
If you look at rates of homosexuality separately, the L and G, rates have barely changed. What’s increased are people reporting themselves as bisexual or TQ which includes nonbinary. The demographics of LGBT(etc) have quietly shifted to representing bisexual women who primarily engage in heterosexual relationships and people need to be told that. The LGBT “community” and activists can’t be said to speak for lesbians and gay men anymore. There’s nothing wrong with being a bisexual woman, I am one myself, but I don’t think this is right or fair, or even makes sense.
Amy, the strength of your messaging names what’s been so troubling about this movement. Predatory practices, lies, manipulation.
Parents were not given informed consent when child safeguarding professions and institutions became captured, or in other words “queered.”
The satirical publication “The Queer Majority” clearly describes what the political objective for any social justice activist agenda would hope to achieve.
Democrats believed that they can win on this agenda.
It is indeed a social contagion that arose like a mushroom in the dank dark blink of an eye of smart phone ubiquity, as Jeane Twenge describes iGen.
Advertising created distinctions between GenX and Millennials. Because GenXers were too cynical to buy what they were selling, “Advertising Week” literally created GenY as a way to market to them.
What’s so disturbing in the current time is the predation through education of young people.
What’s so disturbing is using vulnerable children to advance an agenda that benefits adults. Indeed the expressed desire to “help” children is deeply codependent in nature. The term “caretaking” describes the selfish motives behind the apparent goodwill of these actions.
One of the traits of codependency is making decisions without thinking through the consequences.
One of the traits of codependency is attempting to control others by convincing them of one’s beliefs.
You model how to stay embodied and hold boundaries in order to maintain one’s own agency. It can be as easy as stating the truth, by refusing to allow words to be misused.
It’s so sad that we’ve become so confused as a people. You are my people.
Typo: "Transgender is an incohate term" - should be inchoate.
Really insightful analysis, describing the constantly morphing blob that is transgenderism: thank you!
Thank you!
Insightful, as always.
I’m confused about your economic argument ? You claim being trans is a predatory category invented for profit, yet you ignore the actual economics of transition. Estradiol, spironolactone, testosterone are all generic, off-patent drugs that cost pennies to manufacture. They’re not high-margin products for « Big Pharma » compared to say, patented drugs for chronic widespread conditions. Honestly, if corporate capitalism wanted a new cash cow, a tiny, often uninsured and marginalized minority is a pretty bad target.
Also, the « rise » in id among gen z basically mirrors the rise of left-handedness. When society stopped punishing left-handedness, numbers spiked and then stabilized. People weren’t « marketing » to a new demographic. To frame the liberation of a marginalized group as a mere market expansion strategy is, more than being cynical, a conspiracy theory
There is an excellent article about this by Forbes Magazine called, "Trans Tech is a Budding Industry..." It sites the transition industry to be an over $200 billion market. To put that in perspective for you, that's more than all of Hollywood. It's a massive market. In its heyday, the opioid market was only worth roughly $30 billion.
If you’re referring to the Forbes piece « Trans-Tech Is A Budding Industry: So Why Is No One Investing In It? », girl it doesn’t show what you think it shows 😭
I wouldn’t invest in, just like I wouldn’t invest in the growing sex slave industry. I consider it unethical. I don’t speak for others.
We went from « I excel at finance » to comparing healthcare to sex slavery in record time.
The Forbes article asks why no one is investing. If this was a $200 billion industry (bigger than Hollywood so I hear!), investors would be swarming in. The fact that they aren't proves my point: this is a medical niche. Your hyperbole doesn't change the math.
That is because, as stated, I don’t believe it’s “healthcare” (which I feel should abide by the Hippocratic Oath of “first, do no harm”). I view both industries as crimes against humanity which is a why I made the comparison.
Feel free to invest in this industry if you want but respect the fact others don’t want to.
Are you using arrow keys as quotation marks and plural nouns to refer to singular nouns because I find it hard to read what you’ve written?
The world is bigger than your keyboard, this is standard punctuation in many countries :)
As for plural nouns, singular « they » has been in the Oxford english dictionary for centuries.
Also, hedge funds don't care about the hippocratic oath. Wall Street invests in weapons, oil, and sweatshops. If there was $200 billion on the table, they would take it.
Fascinating stats. Iran’s oil market cited as $40-$50 B per annum in 2024 by comparison.
You need a coffee ☕️ about this so the confused can be enlightened.
Economics and finance is something I excel at so I’ll try to spell it out in simple terms for those, like you, who are genuinely confused about all the money talk.
Convince 10,000 people that they are born in the wrong body and can change sex and multiply that (X) by an upward cost of $100,000 to perform surgeries and sign people up for lifelong wrong sex hormones so that they can better present as the opposite sex = a billion dollar industry. Not to mention the money to be made from treating possible medical complications.
Still not convinced this is a highly lucrative industry please ask Iran who is allegedly billing it as a tourism industry to try to attract “trans” identifying people who believe they are or want to be the opposite sex.
And no, I don’t think that men who say they are women and lesbians have liberated lesbians who represent, as you point out, an already marginalized population. That would require giving us back our identities and hard won right to gather with our own kind.
I’m genuinely glad you brought up your background in finance. Please, help me figure this one out.
You’ve sketched out a hypothetical 1 billion dollars of revenue. In the context of global healthcare and pharma, that’s basically a rounding error. The global market ks in the trillions. The weight loss drug market alone is projected around $100 billion. Anti aging and cosmetic dermatology are tens of billions. A one time, high liability surgical niche in the low billions (if we’re generous) is not where a rational investor goes hunting for its next cash cow.
And even with that $100 000 per person, most of that money is split across surgeons, anesthesiologists, hospitals, nurses, overhead, and malpractice insurance. The actual pharmaceutical component of rests on generic estradiol, spironolactone, testosterone and so on. These are off‑patent, low margin molecules that have existed for decades and are used for many other treatments. If you really excel in finance, you’d chase patented mass market drugs, not small marginalized populations using cheap generics that are under constant political and legal scrutiny.
Sure, wherever there’s an medical need, an industry will form around it. There’s an enormous oncology industry, but nobody serious believes cancer was invented to sell chemo (pleaseee don’t tell me you do). Pointing out there’s revenue to be made doesn’t demonstrate the category was engineered for revenue. Especially when we know trans people have existed long before modern pharma, long before current gender clinics, and across multiple cultures.
And Iran, a « tourism industry », seriously? The whole country is a theocratic regime that forces gay men to transition to avoid the death penalty. How can you even use human rights abuse as an example of a lucrative market
My point in drawing a comparison to Iran is that I think prescribing puberty blockers to children, prescribing wrong sex hormones and performing surgeries on healthy bodies to try to make humans appear to be the opposite sex is human rights abuse where it concerns children and youth who I feel cannot give informed consent. You are entitled to your own opinion, of course.
As we’ve already discussed, I don’t use the language of trans ideology or believe that humans can “transition” or morph into the opposite sex. Nor do I believe that men are women or lesbians either because they want to be or say they are. Those words are taken. As is “dick” - there is simply no convincing me that women are born with dicks.
What I do support is society investing money into researching the effects of administering puberty blockers and wrong sex hormones to humans (at taxpayer expense) as it bears on human brain development, cognitive thinking skills and patient long term medical health. It appears to me we already have a large test sample of patients to draw from in our study of this. It is my sincere hope that we see many “Detransitioners” step forward to be part of this study and that we, as a society, do everything we can to help them.
Puberty for transsexual youth is a trolley problem, yet you are only worried about the few who you empathize with but would instead prefer all the others get run over?
According to polls we do not appear to be talking about “a few”. In the US alone about 2.8 million people aged 13 and older identify as “trans”. Do you dispute this?
Almost all of those are nonbinary, so it's just noise on paper. And I agree with much more rigorous gatekeeping. But there appears to be no basis for concluding that for the MtF, any additional gatekeeping is justified.
You completely dropped the economic argument. I take it you concede your « billion-dollar predatory industry » theory doesn’t really hold up?
As for your pivot, you can’t compare a theocratic regime forcing gay men to transition, under the threat of execution, with the western model of affirmative care, based on voluntary informed consent. They’re polar opposites. One is state violence, the other is bodily autonomy. Then you speak as if this is a new experiment when we have decades of data backing it. Look at Cornell’s systematic review of 55 studies, they found that gender transition improves the well-being of transgender people in 93% of researches. You hope for detransitioners to step forward when they’re statistically rare. The regret rate for transition-related surgery is ~1%. Compare that to knee replacement surgery or laser eye surgery. We don’t ban knee surgeries because a minority regret them.
I’m not asking you to believe anything. I know my biology. Transition was about aligning my physical reality and social existence with my internal sense of self. It’s a social and medical process, not a magical one.
It’s clear we won’t agree on the philosophy of it all, though I’m glad we could at least clear up the financial misinformation :))
I’d also like to thank you for restacking all prominent TERF voices on to your feed to boost our outreach and help to get our message out. Dialogue and debate are a good thing.
Can you restack this post as I worry it’s not getting enough play 👇. I think Zoe Nope is awesomely talented. Who can forget “Terf Bunny One” and those adorable bunnies?
https://substack.com/@knownheretic/note/p-178231152?r=362fm2&utm_medium=ios&utm_source=notes-share-action
I do compare it to what is happening in Iran. I view both acts as a crime against humanity.
To repeat: I do not believe children have the capacity to give informed consent to things that may harm them and I do not believe humans can “transition” into the opposite sex, regardless of their “internal sense of self”. The sex stereotypes upheld by gender ideology continue to offend me as a woman, as a lesbian and as a feminist.
If I had a magic wand I would happily give any man who seeks to be a woman, full womanhood and all that comes with it. Let’s start with being talked down to your entire life and infantilized by men by being referred to as ‘girl’, ‘honey’, ‘sweatheart’ (as you have done to me) … being gaslit and told what it was you said or ‘conceded’ to, when it didn’t happen (as you just did to me) … how about unequal pay? being passed over for jobs because you’re a woman? … an unfair share of household and child rearing tasks placed on woman - all yours … the incessant sexualization of our bodies and being told to bend over or to suck dick … being raped and sexually abused at a rate far exceeding males … the menstruation years, perimenopause or menopause - also all yours (and in case some men are wondering as they await a uterus implant, it’s pure living hell so consider yourself forewarned) … child birth over the top pain threshold, or so I’ve been told … breastfeeding not a sexual turn-on I’ve been told but, rather, a demanding job. I doubt the average man seeks this. Far easier I would think to stay male and for some males to pretend they’re female and infringe on our hard won rights, rob us of our privacy and dignity and then claim our prizes our awards.
You continue to cite stats that have been admitted to be false in high courts of law by “trans” activist lawyers. Feel free to argue your points with them but I think many take things admitted to be false at a Supreme Court level at face value.
I didn't gaslight you. In a debate, when you abandon your main argument (the economics) to pivot to a new topic, that is a concession.
State-sanctioned violence designed to eliminate homosexuality is the literal opposite of healthcare based on bodily autonomy and consent. Equating these two acts is an insult to genuine human rights activism.
But sure let's look at your new argument. You’ve defined womanhood exclusively by suffering: rape, pay gaps, pain, and objectification. First-off, what a deeply bleak and reductive way to view our gender. But then, if « being treated like a woman » is your metric, I have bad news for you: Trans women experience the pay gap, we are catcalled and told to « smile » by men, and we face sexual violence at rates that are horrifyingly high. I don't need a magic wand to know what misogyny feels like, I live it when I walk out my door. The difference is, I don't believe suffering is the only thing that makes a woman.
The Supreme Courts admitting stats are false is just fiction. The UK’s Bell v. Tavistock ruling was overturned. The US Supreme Court is currently reviewing bans sure, but has never issued a factual ruling debunking the 93% satisfaction rate. Don't invent legal history to suit your narrative.
Directing your anger at me won’t solve the patriarchy. I genuinely hope you find a way to define your womanhood by something other than pain.
Oh FFS. If you want to pose on Insta or walk the streets in short skirts, form fitting sweaters with large breasts, in ass shot after ass shot, dressed as a naughty school girl, did you not get the memo that you are likely to attract catcalls from men? Women get this from a young age.
And if you’re trying to attract lesbians, did you not get the memo most of us do not find this attractive. Nor do we want to be coerced into accepting men’s “ladydicks”. Bisexual or heterosexual women might though so can I suggest your best chance of attracting a suitable mate may be with them?
Aren’t you supposed to be a feminist? Blaming a woman’s clothing (like short skirts) for street harassment is the oldest patriarchal excuse in the book. Men harass women because they’re misogynists, regardless of fabric. The more we argue, the more you sound exactly like the men you claim to oppose.
Also, you’re projecting. I post normal outfit pictures because I like fashion. The fact that you immediately sexualize them says more about your mindset than my wardrobe.
You’ve conceded the economics, the legal facts, and the statistics. Now you’re conceding the core tenets of feminism.
And don't worry, no one is trying to coerce you. I date women who love and respect me. You’re safe :))
What about post op individuals? Also, even if you are making a conservative argument about "inviting blame"... where is the other aspect. Do you think if she wore conservative clothing she would avoid scrutiny. Do you?
Absolutely nothing as I see it. What is presenting “as the opposite sex”? Is it based on tired sex stereotypes which feminism sought to challenge and dispense with? Such as women wear skirts, they paint their nails and wear makeup, they act submissively and defer to men …
I agree with JKR: “Dress however you please. Call yourself whatever you like.
Sleep with any consenting adult who’ll have you. Live your best life in peace and security. But force women out of their jobs for stating that sex is real?” That is what has happened - people have been fired, suspended, sued and attacked for saying that sex is real and it matters. This is coming from trans activism which, in my opinion, has crossed a line by imposing on the rights of others.
I’ll add: force women out of their sex segregated spaces which were established to protect them? Coerce others into accepting your belief that men who say they are women are women? Call lesbians “sexual racists” and bigots for refusing to sleep with men who say they’re lesbians? These things have also happened.
I believe in freedom of speech, freedom of belief and the human right to self expression. I resist compelled speech (ie: forcing others to state that TWAW) and persecuting others who do not share your beliefs.
You think the phenotypic sex of the human body is a stereotype? Vaginas? Breasts? Estrogen-dominated phenotypes?
i read the article. yes yes yes. people totally get this. going through comments. yup yup yup.
oh boy. guess who it is?
our favorite arcus foundation employee. or the person who disseminates the same tired old propaganda from 2015. yes, those were the good old days. when people didnt know what the gender industry was up to. but people have figured it out. and i hope you do as well.
- if kids and others respond to dysphoria via the watch and wait method, their dysphoria goes away and they get better. medical biz profits = $0.00.
- or kids and other vulnerable people are scammed into quack gender interventions every gov systematic review on earth found have no benefit. then medical biz gets $millions for each person scammed via basketfuls of unneeded pills, unneeded plastic surgeries and dont forget about the advertising and enabling of this fraud for added customers who come along after. generic pills is like saying organic poison. its still not good for you and is only a tiny part of the issue.
wow, breaking out the old left handed comparison lie?
the # of people who are left handed today is the same as in the 1700s. it was plateaued prior to 1800 and it is plateaued after 1940. it dipped during the industrial revolution due to new machines only made for righties. my former co worker can write equaly well with both hands.
gender ID isnt a plateau. so theres really no comparion.
and most people who ID as opposite gender detrans eventually. by year 4, half stop taking gender meds and go back to IDing as birth gender. gender ID follows the pattern of a placebo. the first 12 to 22 months are filled with thoughts about avoiding whatever people wanted to avoid. drugs and alholohol do the same thing. after that people firgure out thirr issues had nothing to do with gender ID. but then theyre body is ruimed by gender meds and takes a while to get off them. but people do stop taking the meds eventually. so the curve lokks nothing like left handed.
arcus has all the propaganda bullet points. when they get to the end of the list they start again at the top of the list which is where the left handed claim is.
https://www.voidifremoved.co.uk/p/the-left-hand-of-daftness
« Half stop taking meds » citation maybe?
Actual longitudinal studies (like the Dutch protocol) show a 98% continuation rate for teens who start medical transition. Surgeries cost thousands, not millions. No insurance company on earth is paying out « millions » per patient.
Your industrial machine theory is creative though, but historians agree: numbers rose because schools stopped beating children for using their left hands.
Does the Arcus Foundation accept Paypal for deposits btw? I’m still waiting for my paycheck 😔
when you say historians agree thats untrue. but it doesnt mater anyways since left handedness rate is plateaued. is gender ID plateaued? it was going up during the time people were scammed by activisys carefully crafted PR campaign and now its going down since people have figured out what a harmful fruad it is. the world is not bluesky and reddit. the only way gender dogma can stand is via blocking every person on earth that doesnt go along with it. but eventually people figure it out.
every study ever done (12 studys some new some old) found that kids who arent affirmed (meaning no gender meds) grow out of their wish to ID as opposite gender with puberty. but even if they dont grow out of it, gender meds and gender affirmarion dont help. every gov systematic review on earth found gender meds dont help kids mental health, gender dysphoria or anything else. nothing. its a fraud. we know that know. the only people who dont umderstand that are low info people and people who live in a bubble like at bsky or reddit. the rest of the world is banning this fraud and moving on. yes, this can take years. but the cat is out of the bag. i do feel sorry for the bag holders.
i assume your claim that kids dont grow out it is based on olsens fraudulent study.
- she didnt ask her participants if they had dysphoria. so its apples to oranges of what you claim. instead she focused on gender ID.
her participants were 7-12 too young for puberty the age wrn most desist
- 60% of her participants were on gender meds. 100% of her participants were socially transitioned. these delay desistance in the short term but eventually most ID again as their birth gender.
- olsen is a hard core gender activist. and thats how she makes her living. so she has a political and financial intrest to skew the #. she lies.
- all the participants can be assumed to be political actors. why else would an 8 year old opt to ID as opposite gender? obviously they have been spoon fed lies that gender ID is helpful and harmless - both are untrue. an 8 yo kid who IDs as opposite gender has been coached.
even when people do get tricked into taking gendrr meds, they stop takimg them eventually. detrans ppl say in retrospec their issues had nothing to do with magic gender.
of course, gender activists claim few detrans. this is completely untrue. gender activists detrans stats intentionally omit any detrans ppl. when all the medical records of entire groups are looked at we find by year 4, half stop taking gender meds. by year 10 its likely most are off them. and many end up dead as their psych issues and truama go untreated and made worse by activist led quack care that every gov systematic review on earth found provides no benefit.
yes, i understand youv been told a totally different story. uv been lied to. every gender biz stat and claim is 100% a lie. its a PR and lobby campaign to rob kids right to puberty and rob womens right to safety and make $ for the medical biz. sorry you were scammed
in germany the self reported diagnoses of gender dysphoria is needed to get gender meds. once they no longer report that, we know they likely detrans. and we know many detrans people arr still reporting dysohoria just to get the meds since their body is ruined via gender quackery and still need the meds even tho they no longer ID as opposite gender .
"In the longitudinal cohort (n = 7885, 47.1% in the age group 20–24 years; 37.7% male), only 36.4% still had a confirmed F64 (gender dysphoria) diagnosis after five years and diagnosis persistence was below 50% in all age groups (range 27.3% [15–19-year-old females] to 49.7% [20–24-year-old males])."
https://di.aerzteblatt.de/int/archive/article/239563
The German study tracks insurance billing codes for gender dysphoria. The clinical goal of transition is to resolve dysphoria (the distress). When a patient transitions and becomes happy/stable, they often no longer meet the criteria for « clinically significant distress », or they simply move to maintenance care. Hence, the diagnosis code dropping off an insurance claim often means the treatment worked! :)
As for the desistance myth: those older studies are infamous for categorizing any gnc kid (like tomboys or effeminate boys) as « trans ». Of course they « grew out of it » they were never trans to begin with. Modern studies (like Olson's) filter those out, which is why retention rates are now so high.
But honestly, you just called 8yo children political actors and claimed every major medical association is running a fraud. Do you have other grand conspiracies to share? 😭
medical orgs that support gender "care" for kids are running a fraud. thats why theyre being sued by the state of FL.
"Florida AG Sues Medical Activist Groups for Pushing Transgender Care on Minors...The years-long coordinated campaign by WPATH and other medical organizations to disregard the serious health risks of sex change interventions on minors will go down as the most egregious medical scandal in modern history,” said Dr. Kurt Miceli, medical director at Do No Harm, a medical watchdog"
i guess its fun to say that in the old days they recorded gender dysphoria different than today. but thats a lie. the questions and testing for dsm4 gender dysphoria is exactly the same as dsm5 gender ID. they changed the word at the top of paragraph in dsm from dysphoria to ID. thats it. and of course the propaganda masters keep you and the other brown shirts in line via the lie that people dont desist. i think you should reflect on the power this lie has had over you. and how you dont know anything about the dsm for dysphoria or ID. or how wpath made the whole thing up to enable theor fetish to harm kids. your simply swallowing spoon fed lies.
it maybe differnt if you had any thing to support your claims. but you dont. theres no studys that show kids dont grow out of gender ID unless they are pre puberty and affirmd. the olsen study you cite kids were pre puberty. 100% affirmed, 60% on gender meds.
theres also no evidence that 80% of people who ID as trans dont detrans eventually. your comments about the german study arr false. you literially just made that up. you have no evidence this is the case. if so, post it.
yes, if kids are coached into voting for biden or trump they become poltical actors. its the same thing when they vote for gender affirmion. kids that age cant even tie their shoes. a 10 year old would be dead in a week if parents whernt constantly reminding then to watch for cars. they do and say whatever adults sell them on. every1 knows this. but people not aroimd kids slmetimes forget
https://www.nationalreview.com/news/florida-ag-sues-medical-activist-groups-for-pushing-transgender-care-on-minors/
The german study is an administrative claims study. It relies 100% on billing codes. If a doctor stops billing the code (because the patient is fine), they disappear from the data. That is how insurance studies work
Being sued by the state of Florida proves nothing other than that Ron DeSantis and his AG dislike you. A lawsuit is not scientific evidence :)
And calling me a « brown shirt » just because I cited the American Medical Association? Dude you’ve lost the plot.
no one really cares how adults present. theres been no studys to see if gender meds help adults, not ones that have been looked at via evidence reviews. all the debate is around kids. the reason is kids cant concent to the severe life long harm caused by gender meds. but adults arr free to smoke ciggarttes drink whisky, gender ID as opposite sex or a million other optional hobbys.
but part of the adult gender ID is usually a slate of propganda. what youre claiming is completely untrue. every study ever done (12 studys) found that kids who arent affirmed (meaning no gender meds) grow out of their wish to ID as opposite gender with puberty. but even if they dont grow out of it, gender meds and gender affirmarion dont help.
i assume your claim that kids dont grow out it is based on olsens fraudulent study.
- she didnt ask her participants if they had dysphoria. so its apples to oranges of what you claim. instead she focused on gender ID.
her participants were 7-12 too young for puberty the age wrn most desist
- 60% of her participants were on gender meds. 100% of her participants were socially transitioned. these delay desistance in the short term but eventually most ID again as their birth gender.
- olsen is a hard core gender activist. and thats how she makes her living. so she has a political and financial intrest to skew the #. she lies.
- all the participants can be assumed to be political actors. why else would an 8 year old opt to ID as opposite gender? obviously they have been spoon fed lies that gender ID is helpful and harmless - both are untrue. an 8 yo kid who IDs as opposite gender has been coached.
even when people do get tricked into taking gendrr meds, they stop takimg them eventually. detrans ppl say in retrospec their issues had nothing to do with magic gender.
of course, gender activists claim few detrans. this is completely untrue. gender activists detrans stats intentionally omit any detrans ppl. when all the medical records of entire groups are looked at we find by year 4, half stop taking gender meds. by year 10 its likely most are off them. and many end up dead as their psych issues and truama go untreated and made worse by activist led quack care that every gov systematic review on earth found provides no benefit.
yes, i understand youv been told a totally different story. uv been lied to. every gender biz stat and claim is 100% a lie. its a PR and lobby campaign to rob kids right to puberty and rob womens right to safety and make $ for the medical biz. sorry you were scammed
in germany the self reported diagnoses of gender dysphoria is needed to get gender meds. once they no longer report that, we know they likely detrans. and we know many detrans people arr still reporting dysohoria just to get the meds since their body is ruined via gender quackery and still need the meds even tho they no longer ID as opposite gender .
"In the longitudinal cohort (n = 7885, 47.1% in the age group 20–24 years; 37.7% male), only 36.4% still had a confirmed F64 (gender dysphoria) diagnosis after five years and diagnosis persistence was below 50% in all age groups (range 27.3% [15–19-year-old females] to 49.7% [20–24-year-old males])."
https://di.aerzteblatt.de/int/archive/article/239563
unfortunately, i dont believe a word youre saying. what happens most the time is adults discover gender ID as adults and then lie about their childhood experiences. or they just imagine things and then repeat those as if they were facts like trump does. weve all had a tough life. amd i understand yours was no picnic. everything i conclude is based on verifiable information. systemstic evidence reviews. multiple studys wirh same results and unbiased participants. ive been agp my whole life. so what? ive also done heroin cocaine and had a drinking problem. gender ID and drugs and alcohol are adult vises. if a child claims to be opposite sex the thing to do is not affirm this . theres no evidence gender ID helps anyone. not even one person. time after time after time people say they would die if not affirmed and its great after they do and then theyre dead from suicide a week later. it doesnt work. we know that now. theres no benefit to gender affirmarion or gender meds. and its causes severe health problems. one person saying this or thst doesnt mean anything becusse its not part of medical evidence. i wish you well. ive been reading personal blogs of people who transitioned for decades. they are treating psych issues and trauma via quack intevention that doesnt work. most are miserable and are being scammed by big biz. its sad really.
im ok with people drinking or even doing drugs. but why would tax payers pay for it. some are happy? so what? its a hobby. many who use heroin spend 30 years doing a few hundred dollars of heroin a week. others become addicted and are on the steet in a month. the point is this isnt medical tretament . its a vice for some. and medical quackery for others. either way its a choice and theres no benefit to it. gender ID all you want. but you cant claim it helps. you cant claim most continue their gender ID past year 5. and you cant claim its not a choice. so ur left with a hobby or vice many enjoy for a time and many others are severely harmed by.
I’d say that anyone born with male autonomy who calls themselves a “trans lesbian” (as you previously inferred on other posts) is seriously disillusioned. Please clarify again whether you believe you are a “trans lesbian”, because you’ve hit a new post and listeners may not be tuned into what’s happening here.
I project a lot of anger (I’d refer to it as more akin to rage) towards men who call themselves lesbians. It is beyond to me that some men are still trying to convince others, lesbians especially, that some women have dicks. Why not try to sell this story to men and come back to us with their comments?
You challenge me to « sell this story to men » to see what they think? I didn't realize that as a lesbian feminist, you believed men should be the ultimate arbiters of womanhood 🧍♀️
To answer your question though: Yes, I am a woman who loves women. Trans women have been part of the lesbian community even since Stonewall. I don't define my womanhood nor my attraction based on male approval/opinion. I’m even surprised you do?
Your rage is a personal emotional issue you need to work through, not a political argument I need to answer for. I’m not interested in convincing men of anything! I live for myself. Maybe you should try that :)
If you’re referring to the Stonewall uprising in NYC in 1969, you need to realize it was not the first time homosexuals organized to fight for our rights.
1924 marks the oldest gay rights organization formed in the US (Chicago). There were many uprisings in the US and worldwide prior to Stonewall.
But since you brought up Stonewall (which is arguably one of the most famous uprisings and triggered other major cities to rise), you need to understand that our history is well documented and that there are people still living who were there, like Fred Sargent, who cofounded the first gay and lesbian Pride march in NYC. There are also many of us like myself still living who founded other Pride marches in other major cities. Our history is not yours to rewrite.
While it becomes boring to have to keep restating this, make no mistake that it was homosexuals (gays and lesbians as we were known back then before heterosexuals and others started coopting our words) who rose - it was not TQ+. And if you’re referring to Marsha as identifying as a “trans woman”, he did not. He was a gay male and he identified as such which has been preserved in video footage of him speaking and archived on both the internet and in NYC. And before you attempt to “trans” away Storme, know that she was a lesbian and identified as such. Please allow them to keep their identities out of respect for who they said they were.
I am hopeful that younger generations like yourself will stop “transing” away homosexuals, desist from spouting inaccurate revisionist history and stop with this nonsense of coopting the gay and lesbian civil rights movement and saying egregious things that men who believe they are lesbian woman are. We used to have words for men who wanted to sleep with women. Take a pick: either bisexual or heterosexual. Nothing wrong with either sex, any sexual orientation or way of living or presenting in the world as long as it doesn’t harm others or impinge on their rights and dignity.
Respect is earned. We earned our respect by not trying to coerce others and force them to accept us. We allowed others to hold their deeply held beliefs. Do take Dana’s advice and try to earn the respect of other women.
I accept that you believe you’re a woman. I don’t believe it. Please live your best life as we all do.
Done here but if you’d like to keep commenting, please do.
https://substack.com/@notjulietteforever/note/c-188501362?r=6m1z9k&utm_medium=ios&utm_source=notes-share-action
There’s the difference - you don’t require anyone else to regard you as female and you are honest about your sex and sexual orientation.
So you’d rather rely on social goodwill than civil rights? They’re literally what protects you when that goodwill runs out. If a politician wants to target us to win an election, being « sweet, humble, and tormented » won't save you. They don't care how nice you are, they hate what you represent anyway! All you’re advocating for is submission. You want us to survive, by begging 🧍♀️
And the comment about being a midwit... yikes. You would trade your intelligence? More than just envy, do you, like, view womanhood as a state of being lesser, passive, and empty? We’re past gender dysphoria, that’s just misogyny.
You split the world into tormented real trans and fetishists because you can’t accept being trans without the self-hatred is possible.
I don’t have « AGP dreams », I have a real life, and I view my body as mine, not a wreck.
Torment isn’t the only thing that makes you valid, and misery isn't a currency.
You’re really using the murder of a child to prove a your point about « social goodwill »? Brianna Ghey was hunted and stabbed 28 times. The killers’ messages were literally filled with transphobic slurs, hell, even the judge noted the transphobic motivation! Dismissing that is another level of denial. Go ask the families of the victims on the trans day of remembrance if the world is lazy or ignoring us.
There’s no credible peer-reviewed evidence for puberty blockers « shaving off IQ points ». You repeat the same debunked talking points from the GC groups you claim to find wrongheaded? You say you're offended I called out your misogyny but you literally described « The Life » as choosing to be a midwit and passive. If that was entirely rooted on your misunderstanding of blockers, I’ll let it slide.
And you keep trying to force your label on me, like it’s a religious confession? « You too, my friend »😭
No, Dana. I’m not you. Your spectrum thing maps your own shame, it is not a blueprint for my life :)
You may think your safety is bought by blending in but you’re still just one clockable moment away from being the oddity you’re so afraid of. It simply is safer to have your rights in writing, ratter than depend on whether a normie thinks you’re sweet enough today.
If that’s what gives you peace and clarity, I’m glad you found that.
But that’s it, it’s your narrative. You can’t project that onto every trans woman you see, especially telling a young girl that her transition is a cope or a deception. You’d literally be an architect of the very same shame you claim to have moved past.
If you can’t imagine a trans life that’ss rooted in simple honesty, the only limitation is in your imagination.
And idkkk, Kyle comparing our existence to nazis and ted bundy sounds like a pretty big value judgment on intention to me 🧍♀️
I hope your « joyful deception » keeps you safe, I’ll live my truth 🫶🏻
Again, it’s your experience, not a universal fact.
I’m not looking for sympathy based on how many surgeries I can get to appease anyone’s definition of a woman. The whole point of being trans is bodily autonomy! And people have a thousand reasons for their medical choices, from finances to health risks, or maybe they’re just comfortable as they are, ever think of that?
You’re obsessed with passing and « deception ». I’ve told you before, all I care about is taking care of myself and being safe, living in the body I have :)
You define a woman by her parts, I define myself by my life. If someone loses sympathy for me because I don't fit their narrow surgical requirements, all they’re reflecting is their prejudice. You’ve traded your dignity for a « buy-in » from people that only like you if you hide who you are. I’d rather just be myself.
Even in the most progressive cities, trans women (or cis ones for that matter) are harassed, lose jobs, and face violence. Waiting to go full time is a safety assessment. You're essentially saying that if a woman carries pepper spray, she « secretly knows » she's going to be attacked. No, she's just aware of the world she lives in.
A deception requires an intent to trick. I’m not tricking anyone by being myself. If I tell you I’m a woman, I’m sharing the most honest part of my internal reality with you. The « fiction » was all the years of my life I spent pretending to be a man.
You say you don’t live in a delusion, but you’ve spent this whole conversation insisting that your own life is a lie. It sounds exhausting. I work for my happiness every day by refusing your premise :))
I’m not interested in your « project of deception ». My project is just living, and I deserve to be seen as the woman I’ve been all my life.
It’s ironic to be frustrated with Kyle who called your experience a lie, yet you’ve spent this entire thread calling my experience a « deception »? You’re both doing the exact same thing, refusing to believe a trans person is telling the truth about their own life.
Your claim that trans women aren't in danger is dangerously naive. Brianna Ghey was a teenager in a park. To say we’re only in danger if wére assholes is pure victim blaming.
You say my affirmations will feel like « cope » in ten years. I think the opposite is true, that your deception narrative is the ultimate cope. Maybe it’s the story you told yourself to survive an era that didn't have a place for you.
I mean look, at the end of the day, I’m glad you « lucked out » and weren’t hurt, but please stop trying to convince me that my honesty is a scam. I’m just living. If you can’t see the difference, it’s your tragedy not mine.
My point was, they probably won’t see your text if you reply to me instead of their last messages.
Anyway, in a world where people (even in this very thread) compare trans women to Ted Bundy and Nazis, why on earth would a young woman « go full time » before she feels 100% safe, financially secure, and ready? I only think about passing because I don’t want to get assaulted.
That isn't shame or deception. It’s called a social transition, and it happens in stages. You’re bullying her for not being « brave » enough on your timeline, then using her normal human fear to disprove her identity.
If she shouts you down, it’s probably because you’re pathologizing her safety instincts. You're telling her that if she doesn't jump into the fire immediately, she’s a « deceiver ». Instead of helping, you’re just adding to the weight she’s already carrying.
Oh yeah, and we’re all paid off :))
You look at a girl trying to find her way, obsessing over makeup and mannerisms (like many young women do) and instead of seeing a human being, you see a pathology. You project your own shame onto her. No wonder she shouts you down, she can probably feel the judgment radiating off you.
You’re convinced that misery is the destination because it was your destination. You assume I will eventually feel like a « sex mimic » because you never stopped feeling like one. But that is your internal monologue.
The « shortcomings » only eat at you if you believe, deep down, that you’re a fraud. I don't. I don't view my womanhood as a « disguise » that needs to be perfect to work, I view it as my life. I’m simply happy, and I think that’s what frustrates you the most.
(Btw, just like now, I think you often reply to my original comment by mistake. Some of your replies aren’t even meant for me I think? They clearly name Kyle)
In a free society, access to public accommodations (like bathrooms) is a civil right. Access to society is a matter of law, not a favor to grant.
You say « do what you want with your body », but then you immediately set terms and conditions on where those bodies are allowed to exist? Girl that's segregation. You can't claim to be a radical libertarian for medical freedom while advocating for strict social policing of where those free people can go.
If a gay kid comes out and gets kicked out, we don't say the kid harmed the family or « caused a pathology ». We say the family failed to love unconditionally.
Transition didn’t wreck my life or my relationships. It saved them, because it allowed me to show up as my whole self. Yes, dysphoria is painful, but the remedy (transition) is the cure, not the disease.
It seems you view transition as a desperate, destructive last resort that you have to apologize for? I view it as a medical necessity that opened the door to joy. I’m sorry your experience was so impacted by loss, truly. But please stop telling the rest of us that we are harming people just by trying to be happy :)
A parent having to « adjust their expectations » is not harm. It’s a normal part of parenting an autonomous human being. If a child becomes an artist instead of a doctor, or doesn't have grandkids, the parents adjust. Comparing the normal friction of human authenticity to the actual destruction of alcoholism (which kills people and destroys families) is a massive reach.
Honestly, your story highlights such a huge disconnect? You had total support, no misgendering, and a smooth transition... yet you still insist on framing yourself as a « harmful pathology » comparable to an addict?
Your negative view isn't even based on your reality (which sounds lovely!), but on an internalized belief that you should feel like a burden.
You seem convinced you were accepted only because you were compliant and « useful ». Have you considered you were accepted simply because your family and colleagues were decent people who loved you? You don't have to attribute their kindness to your « good behavior ».
I’m glad you had such a smooth ride, truly. I hope one day you can accept that you deserved that love simply for existing, not because you earned it 🫶🏻
I think I can understand where you’re coming from now, it makes a lot of sense. You transitioned in an era without legal protections, I don’t doubt « pass perfectly or be fired » was a literal reality for you. You developed these rigid rules to survive a hostile world.
But just because the world was cruel to you doesn't mean we should accept cruelty as the baseline.
Your stance on passing is deeply unfair. « Trying harder » doesn't change bone structure, genetics, or bank accounts. By your logic, poor trans women or those who transition later in life deserve the mockery of those teenage girls because they « failed ». That’s victim-blaming. If those girls laughed at a cis woman for being overweight or having a « manly » jaw, we’d call them bullies. We wouldn't tell the woman she « failed to be female enough ». Why is the standard different for us?
You call respect a « quid pro quo », that we must buy our safety with compliance and passing. What a terrifying way to live? It means your safety is always conditional, gosh, always one « clockable » moment away from being revoked.
We’re fighting for a world where you don't have to be « above reproach » just to exist, where you can be mediocre, messy, or clockable, and still be treated with kindness. You deserve safety because you exist, not because you paid for it with « good behavior ».
The « deception » is the core of our disagreement. I’m not tricking anyone, I’m simply existing and inhabiting my life. Framing trans women as « deceivers » is the exact logic used to justify violence against us. We’re only telling the truth about who we are.
You support puberty blockers and youth transition to prevent the pain of male puberty. Do you realize that position puts you at direct war with almost every other « gender critical » person? They all view what you just advocated for as child abuse, « sterilization » and a crime. Dana, you’re trying to find common ground with people who want to legally ban the very medical care you admit is necessary to save kids from the suffering you endured!
We agree that passing is easier with early intervention. We agree that money shouldn't dictate passability.
Yet you still rely on that quid pro quo kindness from bosses, not on civil rights that protect us even if your boss is an asshole. That’s the difference. Rights are for the people who aren't lucky.
I think we’ve said all there is to say, but I’m at least genuinely glad you support youth access to care. That’s a bridge between us I didn’t expect.
I appreciate the honesty! It’s rare to find someone in the gc camp who actually admits transition is necessary for youth, even if it contradicts the rest of their movement.
On the deception point, I think it’s what really highlights our generational difference. You say « we all know in our hearts we are sex mimics ». I need you to know: I do not feel that.
When I walk down the street, I don’t feel like I’m tricking people. I feel like finally presenting the truth. The « deception » was before I transitioned, when I had to pretend to be a boy to make everyone else comfortable. That was the lie. Living as a woman is the first time I’ve been honest.
You view your life as a necessary mimicry to survive pain. I view mine as an authentic expression of myself. We might never bridge that gap, but I hope you realize that the shame you carry isn't mandatory. It’s not an inherent part of being trans, just a scar from a world that wasn't kind to you.
Take care. I’m glad we could agree on saving the kids, at least :)
Okay! Your take is refreshing :))
If you support my right to access hormones, modify my body, and live without shame, then we’re political allies on the things that actually impact my daily life. « Abolish all stereotypes » and ownership of gender are goals I can get behind 😼
Though then, why cling to bioessentialist labels?
At any rate, I’ll take pro-medical freedom over predatory capitalism conspiracy theorist any day.
Urghhh, I was with you until the pseudoscience part. The agp theory has been debunked for decades and is just a fancy way to pathologize trans women who love women.
To answer your question: It doesn't hurt to discuss biology. I know my chromosomes. I know I went through male puberty. I’m not delusional. But reducing a human being entirely to their birth conditions is a very narrow way to view the world 🧍♀️
You essentially describe my life as a tragedy I have to « make the best of, involving torment and just simulating womanhood ». That might be your view, but it isn’t my reality. Mine is joyful. I don't just get by, I thrive. My partner doesn't humor me, she loves me 🫶🏻
I don't need to be a « quiet, cheerful asset » to earn basic dignity. Respect isn't a transaction anyone pays for with compliance, it's a basic human right.
Definitely with you on the medical freedom, but I’ll decline your pity. I love being the woman that I am :)
You’re projecting. You’ve built a framework where you’re a « feminized male with an inward-turned orientation ». If that narrative helps you make sense of your own life, sure. Keep it that way. But do not presume to diagnose me, neither will I. I am not you.
Studies applied blanchard’s criteria to cis women and found that 93% of them qualified as agp. When a diagnostic tool classifies nearly all women as having a fetish for their own gender, the tool is broken.
But the most heartbreaking part of your comment is your view on respect. You view basic dignity as a courtesy earned by being a « quiet asset »? You believe we must apologize for our existence by being useful and silent. That’s a survival mechanism to a hostile world. I expect respect because I am a human being, regardless of whether I am « useful » to the corporate team :)
Curious if you also consider yourself pro-LGB and if you see a problem with men saying they are “trans lesbians” or women saying they are “trans gay”.
I hear you. Men like you were never a threat to lesbians but you know that. In fact, I’d say we historically welcomed you before many gay men did. I personally owe gay male transvestites and male drag queens my life because it was them who protected women like me from being attacked when butch women could not.
Men who say they’re lesbians are a threat to us. I appreciate this has not impacted the gay men’s community as much as it has us. Same sex attracted men can just say “piss off” to women who say they’re gay men and get away with it because men can out power women and women are not prone to rape or sexually abuse men.
Lesbians are being told to leave LGB spaces; we face signs at almost every LGBT establishment that read “TERFs not welcome”; we are no longer welcome at Pride if we will not say TWAW; we have our memberships revoked if we complain; we are fired, suspended and sued if we speak out; we are throw off of online dating sites if we protest men being on there; we are sued when we try to establish female only online platforms to connect with other women. We, unlike you, cannot out power men who are bigger and stronger than us. The bat signal needs to be activated - same sex attracted rights have fallen alongside women’s rights and lesbians are getting pummelled.
I know you see our vulnerability and I very much appreciate you commenting.
Predatory marketing is bad enough, but to really make your skin crawl consider this: Older men with weird and in some cases sick and dangerous sexual fetishes are all too happy for the vulnerable, naive young people joining (groomed in some cases) this category. Not only are these young people sympathetic poster children to be the public-facing side of "trans" behind whom the ones who trigger our disgust response can hide, but in some cases the kids are actually targets of sexual predation. When people talk about sacrificing our children to Moloch, it may not be the kind of language and imagery you are comfortable with, but this (along with the scandalous medical interventions) is what they are seeing.
Linguistic manipulation has been the tool , enthusiastically adopted by progressive protagonists. Why not take a leaf from their book and cease using “ gender dysphoria/ incongruity “ and , instead use “ transgender ideation “ ?
There will be true “ unicorns “ of the former, but the latter is a more accurate label for most of the individuals within the recent ROGD epidemic
SEXUALIZED MALES IS WHAT I MISS HERE..I SEE SEXUALIZED FEMALE..I WANT TO SE MALE WHERE ITS FEMALE AND LOOKING LIKE FROM PORN..
This is one of the most brilliant essays I've read in a long time
This is the first time I ever read anythng which persuasively argued that transgenderism can serve as a TOOL FOR PREDATORY CAPITALISM.
In any event, I welcome you to examine my article which makes two points: A) it shows why intellectual endeavors paradoxically often yiield stupid ansewrs and B) it illuminates the role of castrating, disturbed Mothers in inducing male to female transgenderism
https://davidgottfried.substack.com/p/the-intellectual-bankruptcy-of-erudite